For me, I purchase OEM then if anything goes wrong I have a legitimate beef with the supplier. Four years later, in March 2001, the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles ruled that R.J. Liou, Kent Graphtec and Trophy Sports, a separate company started by Jethro and his mother, Yeh-Chyn, in late 2000, had breached the settlement by continuing to sell Big Bursars. Ball: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft. I cant say Ive chased the next new thing, only last year did I move the a 460 driver, of course I had to build three. Because MyGolfSpy Labs doesnt put a score on things, rather than have our testers fill out our surveys, we simply had a discussion about the subjective aspects of our two drivers. Nearly all Club heads come from China. Read further and you will find that the same factories involved are also producing Clone Clubs. Bigger golf companies have more money to spend on the details, and while ultimately those details many not directly impact performance, I can tell you with certainty that given two clubs with similar performance attributes, the prettier one will always sell bettereven if its more expensive. Unless its Oscar Peterson. Love them. It is the consumers who have the most power to affect change. This doesnt count the shafts, grips and balls Ive gone through. It would seem Value Golf is where the Pinhawk clubheads originated. Its not the arrows, its the Indian guys. Callaway X Forged UT Individual Irons. Fact is players with lousy swings are still carding in the 110+ neighborhood if theyre scoring honestly. The suggested mens length for the Pinhawk SL's is 37", which is a typical 7 iron length. A test such as yours would better be done on mechanical equipment such as the ball manucturers use. I switched to the Hireko prophet irons. Championship). $229.99. Expected an article comparing clone(s) plural. It appears that you are debating the way he phrased the sentence. We carry a full line of product offerings, from best value starter and junior Gap distance is very good and the strong lofts assist length in the 5, 6, 7 irons. Acer Golf Clubs I would like to purchase clone component heads from China but I am skeptical because I have no knowledge of which companies to trust. Example, a set i built last year,.winn tac mac grips(the best)DTs smoke shaft,(as good as a 30dollar shaft)black& silver ferrells, and DTs cavityback blade heads in smoke/black color, (really sharp) with all 4 Diamond Tours wedges,.and 2 matching hybrids(#2,#3) with head covers,..BUILT for ME, (short man), so set was shortened cut,shafts spline alin, lie angle changed 2 degrees flat, loft angle adjusted, all assembly,packed, shipped to my door,..for I think it was around $ 450 +/- ! If a component seller such as Diamond Tour wants to be fully legitimate, they need to invest fully in true component companies such as SMT, and abandon the practice of selling Clone clubs. Club Fitting & Repair - 1757 Golf Club As with our test of the Shotmaker, shafts were spined and FLOd. https://mygolfspy.com/ultimate-review-acer-xs-driver/. Actually liked the longer length distance gapping in those but could not dial in shorter length club distancegapping. All Levels of Golfers Beginners to Advanced. Stupid autocorrect! Up closeummmnot so much. He incorporated the word Integra into the logo and then submitted it to Liou for approval. Obviously, many big brand clubs are really good and almost always lead the trends in golf technology (maybe not originally came up with all of the ideas). No one knows what they are. In fact, I enjoyed better le from my 302s. Hireko is also an authorized reseller of With respect to backspin the numbers are incredibly close. A boyish 25-year-old Californian, he has been selling golf clubs since he was 15. Will replacing them with the new name brand technology make a significant improvement to their game? They are concentrating on Counterfeits and Copies, but again, Clones and Knock Offs are part of the same problem. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. I have a mixed bag of Name brands and clubs from Giga Golf. I have hit them myself and compared a set of them with my name brand and really with the same shaft,,,, they were every bit as good and a bit better in some respects cause I made them to fit and every component was checked. Who is going to take those remarks seriously? If however, you place a premium on accuracy, though not as conclusive, there is some suggestion that the clone could be the more accurate of the two heads. Distance For each of our 3 testers, the real Burner was the distance winner. There are different levels of counterfeiting, says Debra Peterson, a U.S. customs official who was involved in Project Teed Off. A PGA Professional will give a lesson to anyone, but ask them if a Clone/Knock-Off club is a good choice and see what type of answer you will get. In 1997 R.J. Liou reached a settlement with Callaway. I actually built some Wishon/Sterlings (single length collaboration between Tom Wishon/Jacob Bowden) at multiple lengths (i.e. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Even the raw materials received were sometimes out of tolerance. Go back to the drawing board and get a fair representation of the better quality heads and their nearest OEM head. I had them custom fitted senior flex shafts. I know of at least 2 touring pro who wanted to be sponsored by KZG and use their clubs. You might also find it surprising that these clone designs are often approved by the name brand manufacturers before they are released. Too many variables. I have to say I am more impressed now to the point of considering buying some components to actually test them. Sorry the average golfer is not able to drop $3-400 for a driver or fairway wood. Pinhawks are a separate entity, and they are pretty good. Dave Tutelman preferred pinhawk heads over other single lengths due to their matching of It is less and less common. SOURCES I had back surgery with only partical success and will be playing limited golf so I would like to buy a good quality ( as close to OEM as possible) non OEM set of irons and have them custom fit. Golfsmith were, er, well Golfsmith and we'll leave it at that. GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S Her irons are Acer HT, likes them also. (Major as in U.S. Open, Masters, British Open P.G.A. No it wasnt exactly cheap to do, That said theres a good chance Ill die with these in the bag. Im 62 and have been playing golf since I was 7 and up until recently, like most people, played name brands forged clubs. All those statements do is hurt the component biz. It may still happen, but it is less and less. YOUR DIRECT QUOTE: First off you might be surprised to know that in the computer industry the clone market was hugeand believe it or not names like Compaq, Dell and Gateway all started as clone computer companies. Construction, Material, or Quality. The foundation of our methodology is that both fitter and customer must have the opportunity to observe actual ball flight. I have more confidence standing over my X-Hot and enjoy owning them without having to hide the label X-heat. OK.today is going to be a good one golfspies! Not surprisingly, the Burner also produced the greater shot height for 2 of our 3 testers. Of course, this is my individual experience. You also probably wouldnt have the balls to show up at the course with them in your bag after all someone may poke fun at you. To say that a consumer has no responsibility is, well sad. I have built clubs as a hobby for some time and certainly am happy to hear your testing results on brand names vs. clones. Re-shafted mine with Axe Xcaliber SL graphite. My point is: high handicappers dont hit the ball well enough, or consistently enough, to notice a difference in performance. Almost every golfer has an opinion about the topic when askedso we felt it would make for a great labs article. Head is just going along for the ride. Great story Do you recall a clone called Arnies Own several years ago? GOLFSHOT APP and the MGS MEMBER VIRTUAL TOUR TRYOUT AND ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP DISCOUNT!! document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The right shaft for the player is far more important IMO. WebGolf Clubs. When it comes to sidespin, the Clone generated an average of 81 RPMs less. I trust GolfWorks regarding their club head model designs/quality and spec tolerances. Are Hireko golf clubs any good? - MyGolfSpy Forum Dynacraft was next with Golfsmith last. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer. A few reputable clone companies online get their product made at the same foundry that a few large name brand companies get their gear made. Do not know how close they are to spec or how they rate to the other good non OEMs. I paired that up w a recoil pull and I love that club, it's my go-to for tee shots if driver isn't behaving. The long irons are 5i length and the mid and short irons are 8i length. TaylorMade gets credit for the original design. I am/was a Dynacraft Class A clubmaker and a member of the old Dynacraft ProfessionalClubmakers Society. 2nd Swing offers the largest selection of used golf clubs both online and in our stores, including every brand and model imaginable. Whether you are just getting into the game or the seasoned vet trying to score a great deal, we have it. When it came to heads Golfworks was the best. Select from our vast assortment of clubheads, custom assembled with your choice of shaft, flex, grip, grip size Obviously this test doesnt begin to cover all of the combinations. Having never played before i cant say too much but my mates whove played for years were impressed after trying them out. When i researched them i found they were clones of the Cobra King Cobra set. I wish you would have also tested the stock shaft on that clone driver. Sound and Feel TaylorMade has a reputation for producing great feeling, great sounding drivers. I called Hireko and spoke to the guy who makes the videos (tech line). He explained that they design the clubs from Acer and most of the brands in Frustrating. Launch Angle and Apex For the most part, the Burner and the Clone produced similar launch characteristics. I also have a few different sets of clubs and many extra clubs lying around the house. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. Golfdom | A Worldwide Golf Shops Company For those that are dead set against clonesyou should remember this.many name brand models are modeled after other companies designs as well. They design their clubs but they look amazingly like many other top brands. If you cant afford the latest and greatest, do some research and find something that will work for you at a price you can afford. They own the other brands in their website by acquiring them over the years. Understanding what has happened and continues to happen in this industry is a thread common to all of those who contract for manufacturing in the Far East. I understand the average iron costs less than $10 to make thats head shaft and grip. Those factories not only produce clones and counterfeits they also produce for OEMs (I know this because I happen to know a guy in one of these factories), All big OEMs admit having their heads and some shafts manufactured in China. Looks As you might expect the Burner looks much more refined. Orkut drivers = oem drivers. Where are you going to get something for that? Not driven only by what is legal, but what is right. Iron Set for Men (5,6,7,8,9,PW,AW,SW) Right Handed with Regular Flex Steel Shaft, WHI-711, Set 9 pcs(4,5,6,7,8,9,PW,GW,SW) or Individual, Iron 7 for Men Right Handed Golfers -(Flex- Regular), Kids Golf Set with Glove, Balls, Tees, and Towel, Golf Season is Here. 2nd Swing offers the largest selection of And some use the exact same molds. Our team of expert fitters fits more than 500 delighted customers a year!Our staff of skilled club fitters is passionate about providing the highest level of customer service. If not then YOU are nothing but BRAND WASHED. WebGigaGolf Custom Golf Clubs FREE STAND BAG with $500 custom Learn More a GIGAGOLF EXPERT for club fitting assistance or to place an order by phone (M-F) 8 to 5 est Learn More Play better golf with custom clubs fit I saw they also have a dual length set for people that just don't want to play long 6i length short irons. Clones are a short cut. While I remember the ACER brand back in the mid 90's, I think Hireko started early 2000's (could be off here). I have used the big brands like TaylorMade, component brands like Golfsmith, and unbranded clone clubs. And I think you might be in for quite a surprise! Its in the hole! Discover more about the small businesses partnering with Amazon and Amazons commitment to empowering them. And while I might argue that over the last couple of years theyve taken a small step backwards in those areas, they remain largely ahead of the curve. The connections between CLones and Counterfeits have been made. By far the best feeling head/shaft combo Ive ever had. According to Jeff Sheets (used to work for Golfsmith, wrote a couple of books) theres really no discernable difference between a .335 and .350 tip. In addition, the swingweight and flex are also the same. Used equipment from Wishon or KZG virtually have no resale value and offer a tremendous value. Clones fall within legal guidelines and do not have the same name, markings or overall design. Also, your purchase will include LIFETIME LIE ANGLE ADJUSTMENTS. Or youre the website that would love to write an article like this, but worry about the repercussions you might feel from an OEM advertiser. Great review! I believe it was good for MGS to write about this since it eduates people about the other choices they have. I trust GolfWorks regarding their club head model designs/quality and spec tolerances. Give me a web site that shows the difference names of club components and the quality of the components so I can make an informed decision so that I dont have to rely on a manufacturer who has advertised his name to be number one. Square headed drivers made from wood in the 1800s. A counterfeit is a club design that purposely attempts to deceive you into believing it is the real thing. Always has been and always will be. The assertion made that many Clones are made in the same factories as OEM clubs is unsubstantiated and simply incorrect. I picked up a set of King Snake MRs in the local ads for 25. 1757 Golf Club | 45120 Waxpool Road Dulles, VA 20166 | 703.444.0901. Jethro Liou is an expert in the knockoff business. While laser technology can scan the outside, they do not scan the inside. Keep up the great work! Length Adjustments We can make your clubs longer or shorter depending on your needs. Well.i found the clone world years ago,.and love em. Quality is really poor. the consumer. Testers Wanted: Maxfli Tour Series Golf Balls! The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components and clones for companies like. Thank you. (E.M. QUALITY!! While all the content of what you said may be correct there is more to clone/knockoff/etc. What proved to be reality for our testers is that despite similar performance, thedifferencesin the subjective categories (in this particular case) are potentially enough to suggest that for some there is indeed $200 worth of improvement to be found in the Burner Tour. Regarding Acer, most likely but don't know for sure. Knock-Offs operates under the same principle. Of course, they would like to purchase the real thing and/or get fitted for a truefit set. Counterfeit Clubs and Clones are more often manufactured in the same factories in China. Then to follow it up with the only diff is that the Major OEMs have more money to B.S. Dont believe all this nonsense you have heard or read and then presented as factola! R.J. owned Kent Graphtec, an importer of club components from Taiwan and, later, China. Although I have made several sets of look alikes mostly from Hireko I have found the Irons are great and although they should always be checked for loft and lie after assembly that using a good shaft the work just great. Are Acer and Pinhawk owned by Hireko? The feel and feed back at impact is as good as any clubs Ive played. I played a set of extremely cheap looking rental clubs. The Cobra clone had the unique Cobra hosel and the Taylor clone heads were painted brown and the shaft were brown and black. They might could provide you with design answers/informationyou might have. Our numbers suggest a clone offers more bang for the buck. I called Hireko and spoke to the guy who makes the videos (tech line). They just cannot afford it! On performance alone, its hard for me to justify spending the extra $200 (based on initial MSRP pricing). Reshafting These services usually take 5 to 7 days, as we have to order Are shafts or heads manufactured to a large (+-) tolerance with the (-) tolerance being the norm or are the parts manufactured to close tolerances? Don't know if one is better than the other, both are good . All you have to do is make a few changes to keep anyone from suing you, Zhu said of equipment that walks the fine line between whats legal and whats not.. Ping, TaylorMade, Callaway, Nike, etc. That's great feedback! . Because the ball position and club length are the same, you can use the same swing for every single-length iron, improving consistency and repeatability. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Think someone mentioned that here? What condition are your used clubs? WebCobra KING TEC One Length Custom Utility Iron. Yes, theyve followed the design pack for years cavity back, perimeter weighting, thinner faces, titanium drivers, carbon fiber crowns, etc. I play the Pursuit cavity back forged too. Fast forward to now and Dynacraft is Hireko complete with Jeff Summit, a go to guru on club building and perfotmance that worked Dynacraft with Tom Wishon. I have the t7 which is the R7 clone. Even with a $2700 bag of Pings latest game improvement sticks. Our staff of skilled club fitters and club builders are passionate about providing the highest level of customer service. The assertion made that many Clones are made in the same factories as OEM clubs is unsubstantiated and simply incorrect.. Cool. Essentially, you were saying that all clone companies operate in the same way. No one knows how sloppy things are manufactured unless you are right watching and know what you are watching for. I recently played golf without my set while visiting my brother. I started out 4 years ago with a Pinemeadow clone of the Callaway Big Bertha ironsthen moved up to the actual Big Berthas and did feel and see some difference in overall quality.however I did have trouble with one of the Callaway stock graphite shafts which flaked and split on my 8 iron.my feeling is that it would be difficult for me to determine the difference in large part because at the time I was so new to golf.-and perhaps I was feeling more confident with an OEM in my bag(FYI: I now play Nike long irons and Cleveland scoring clubs and love them! He played 6 over par and was so accurate to the green and on the green. I used Geek Drivers in Senior Long Drive Competitions, none of which I won, but it wasnt because of the Geek equipment, it was a faulty swinger (me) not the equipment. Not sure about Pinhawk, think they are their own entity. Regarding Acer, most likely but don't know for sure. I have contacted Hireko customer serv . Learn more about Roger. I started getting their catalogs in the 80's and buying from them. Not so many Hireko/Acer/Pinhawk. Enjoyed playing with them. How many of us have purchased the latest whoopie doo driver to find no difference in handicap. Oneday 8 years ago I saw an add from Hireko for their THRIVER. Speaking of non OEM brands, which of the following irons will be best quality for play- Maltby, Wishon,, Alpha, Kzg, Hireko, etc. I have bought several other Hireko clubs and have been totally satisfied. T. he loft gapping is slightly larger than traditional irons; this is to maintain a proper distance gap between clubs. Custom fitting can have a dramatic effect on your game. Cookies help us deliver our services. WebGOLFDOM is THE Golfer's Store, complete with everything our customers need for on AND off the course. Some golfers place an absolute premium on distance. I'm happy with it. I switched to Dynacraft Prophet cavity backs and have not looked back. if you go with cheapest components, you can get a set really cheap, but why not buy a little better, and get a set worthy or even better than store sets for half the price.? Personally, I think his sentence would be more accurate. That you are giving money to an operation that also conducts Illegal activities? Can you point me in the right direction? Truth isclones are good for people that just cannot afford a Major brand and/or a custom set! Whats the harm in buying a Knock-Off/Clone? Bottom Line: For some folks a clone will dodepends on what kind of player they are -or want to become.Ive used a Pinemeadow clone putter and holed just as many shots as I have with an Odyssey White Hot Two Ballmethinks the main problem with clones might be psychological as one wonders how much better the real thing isand of course clones have zero resale value if that becomes an issue later on down the road. Pin hawks are much more cost effective in my opinion for testing so I will most likely go that route. According to Jethro, the familys legal fees for the discovery phase alone came to more than $1 million.. Single One of the quotes from your comment is absolutely wrong. nice way to put down your own company. I have used this club as my driver.It has a 13 degree face, It have spent way over $1,000 on drivers and never satisfied. Clothing manufacturers have been battling this issue for many years. Some of you that shout the accolades of name brand clubs and tell everyone else the pitfalls of playing clones you probably never hit a quality clone before. From what I understand Dynacraft was a big name with amateur club builders and both dynacraft and hireko did/do a lot of club building education and seminars. Im broke n in college so i wanted a cheap set of irons to get me started. Just because something in a Chinese factory was allowed to happen, does not make it right. Oh , incidently, this thing about the heights of people I feel is not an important part of the fit. Single Length Golf Clubs - Bainbridge Custom Clubs Contrary to a traditional set of irons, the SL's are all designed to be the same length throughout the entire set. Golfsmith has become really copy cattish lately, but mainly because they are throwing in the towel on the clubmaking side of it. So you are saying that geek golf that you run is just a spin off as well. Counterfeits and Clones from the same cloth Used to play tourney plus perimeter weight forged irons with stiff gold dynamic shafts those days are gone. PING, in an older Golf Digest article, seemed pretty adamant that their stock offerings are on par with anything sold in the aftermarket. LOL. A good golf club is a good golf club, no matter what name is stamped on it. Lets not forget the Titleist Speeder shaft which is a Graffalloy Pro Custom, ($20) shaft or Calloways sourcing their shafts from several manufactures with only the barest of specs. Lynn, Do a couple of irons too, test a 9, 7 and 5 iron from 4 or 5 different popular clones and their OEM twin. Now woods I have a little different take. I think what is more interesting is that you missed the fact that I stated in the sentence those companies are both clone and component makers: DIRECT QUOTE: Ive used their 302 model iron for years now and just recently compared their performance against several of the leading irons on the market. So bottom line dont leave this subject here Golf Spy please do a test of clone irons! You can do lab tests forever, but if a club does not feel right for your swing, it doesnt matter how it did in tests. Tim not only is a popular fitter but one of the most sought-after instructors. I submit that much is misguided and misinformed. SWIFT) Determination of trademark infringement is tough to prove and costly. But there really is no best answer its all subjective. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Pinhawk SL Single However to say if we hit one thousand shots with the same club we can get a very good idea of our results. Of course, if you want re-sell value probably by OEM. I think people make such a big deal about the equipment because it appears as if it is the easiest thing we can control. Written by L Mayhew 2007 . My DTG S2 Pros were both on spec. Thank you for the update. I have been researching single length clubs again and I may just have to order a few Pinhawks to build/test. Sent from my So to sum it up, the component industry made a lot of the modern technology way before the major OEMs had any of this gear which to me says that the component industry has a lot more Firsts than any of the OEMs put together. The one reason that the numbers have diminished is simply because there are less clone companies in existence compared to 5-8 years ago. Wanna buy some clubs? (E.M. So, of all the clubs Ive ever owned, one club was .7g past tolerance. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More! Got it, thanks! Does anyone have any experience with any of the clubs, components, or company found at Hireko golf? Does seem disheartening that GolfSmith and GolfWorks would be lumped into second tier. Someone else designed it, so theyre going to laser copy it, skip the R&D, use cheaper material, spend nothing on advertising the new design, and take money from a certain consumer segment. Amazon.com: Single Length Golf Irons Being a designer in this industry I can tell you for a fact that some of the clones that are upper tier are designed in the same foundry that many mid to upper tier name brand models are designed in.
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