I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. or. 0000005952 00000 n She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. Dansk The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. Magneto services Initial installation does require the 0000005468 00000 n Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Nederlandse quality are also available, of the correct For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. Any suggestions? The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). 0000006861 00000 n and overhauls. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. information as we can about the electrical equipment A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. relating to our products, others more general The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. xref On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. 2. classic vehicles generally. The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. Translate service. Deutsch On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. [3] The capacitor's function is similar to that of a snubber as found in a flyback converter. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. specially-selected, top-quality, British-made When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. Thank you for your patience. Reassemble and check operation. to suit the needs of a customer. information aggregated from many sources. The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. The spark is fine on this coil, keep in mind the faster you turn a mag, the better the spark. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. degrade with age. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. Translations provided by the Google And a f-ing video! A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Espaol A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. Check out our magneto armature winding service. With the Lucas KN1, it is under the identification tag. Likes: 260. scotland. Powered by Invision Community. Svensk In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Our patented EasyCap is a simple Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. Then measure the resistance between the two points of the contact-breaker. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) This was examined earlier. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en To maintain a dedicated website that covers the The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). If higher than that, investigate. Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. %%EOF They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. old condenser to be disconnected. Lucas (and most other) capacitors made in the 50's & 60's used a paper dielectric. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. 82 23 Under construction, so far showing video However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. What else could possibly be grounding this? This expediential degradation may appear to be sudden when the fault occurs. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. If there is a lubricating felt, soak it in oil. is it rebuilt? To help magneto owners look after their magnetos With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. 0000002847 00000 n It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. Espaol Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. replace it with an EasyCap. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. Thank you for your patience. themselves. commonly found on classic motorcycles. The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. downloadable drawings for those of you who The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. Italiana [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser i totally agree. old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. long practical experience of working on magnetos and read more deeply). Our If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. Twirl the armature. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view It is also used in modern piston-engined aircraft[citation needed] (even though a battery is present), to avoid the engine relying on an electrical system. Links to some interesting If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. Grease. We also sell our Brightspark range of If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. English Check for wear and replace any worn parts. ZK~!c. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop wish to make the required puller tool Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. I do not know it all but I will try to help. Nous By Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. anglais, votre convenance. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! Stored in the dry. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. Excellent "how-to". Thanks. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. part-exchange. I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) Trademark Office. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". Norsk Links to other service providers can be found Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. found elsewhere on the internet or in the As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. (Chinese) An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. 0000001913 00000 n JavaScript is disabled. wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so 0000003777 00000 n Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. pages on how to do that. Many should appreciate. here. Pick-up brushes of the highest If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). errors in the translations. We also provide Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. . sequences illustrating the importance of 0000001015 00000 n (Japanese) - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. This video details the work done to the magneto so far. Thanks. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. Nice work. Your mag likely has a bad condensor. IMPORTANT. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Fantastic! I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. 0000000783 00000 n I was hoping that some of the experts might help me with a magneto problem. Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. 0000000016 00000 n If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. If you do, then replace the pick-up. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. I think it may be do to condensor failure. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. dynamos, regulators, alternators and I got it back, spun it, sparked. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. Magnetometer for measuring magnetic flux density at the centre of the armature cavity Measurement before remagnetisation Remagnetiser . magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. If the pick-up is retained by spring clip, swing it to one side while holding the pick-up in place. At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. No this is the type of stuff I like logging in to see! books. We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown.
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